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Transcript pages are notated with a letter signifying a specific transcript followed by the page number. The letters are assigned as follows:
A May 6, 1995. Four Seasons Hotel, Vancouver, BC
B June 28, 1995. Royal Scott Inn, Victoria, BC
C July 18, 1995. Ocean Point Hotel, Victoria, BC
D July 19, 1995. Ocean Point Hotel, Victoria, BC
E July 26, 1995. Landis Hotel, Vancouver, BC
B111 Al : "When I ask you a simple question, were you alone or were you with someone and you can't answer me a simple yes or no, that makes me think that you're hiding something."
B114 "You know what though, when you don't answer that question it makes me think that you don't trust me." And therefore Burns cannot be trusted as long as he maintains innocence or even resists incriminating himself.
C23 Burns tries to convince Al that Rafay is trustworthy. Al: "What's he think about his family fuckin' being done?"
Al: "Good..." Al proceeds to ask about motives and attitudes towards incident.
C35 Al asks whether they feel good about the crime, and upon receiving an affirmative response declares " -well they gotta be trustworthy."
D31 Al: "Trust and honesty is the biggest thing in my life. People work for me, they're not honest with me, then I don't trust them... I'll never fuckin' look after them. That's the bottom line here... Honesty's the biggest thing and trust. My whole fuckin' everything I do depends on trust.
D36 Al (to Rafay): "My concern here, can you be trusted. You see what I'm sayin'." "And what I'm thinkin' now is... Sebastian'd be in more fuckin' shit than you for, see why, you know why." "That's why I gotta be sure you are solid." "Why didn't you fuckin' swing a bat."
D51 Al (to Rafay): "Okay trust is the biggest thing here, man." "Trust is the biggest thing." Rafay tries to persuade Al that he would never inform on him. Al then asks him how he feels about the crime and motive.
E3 Al (to Miyoshi): "...the biggest thing is trust, and I gotta know I can trust you. What I like about you so far is that uh, when they were going down to the States you didn't fuckin' rat about." (Miyoshi makes some exculpatory remarks, and when Al indicates his anger at this Burns apologizes for Miyoshi.) Al: "Yeah I understand he's being clever, but this isn't the time to be clever, I gotta be sure I can trust him." (Al then asks for specific information about Miyoshi's supposed knowledge of the crime.)
E4 Al: "Let's be honest." (Proceeds to ask questions requiring incriminating answers). " .. .I'll tell you the reason I'm asking is I gotta be sure you can be trusted." "See what I'm saying? I mean not hiding nothing from me right now because it's not gonna anybody any good. If I can't trust you I can't trust anybody 'cause you're involved with me right now.... And I gotta be sure I can trust all three of you."
E6 Burns to Miyoshi, while Al listens: 'I . ..the question in his head is why, why you didn't you guys do as much. . . . . And basically urn, for him it is to like it's to your credit for you to explain that to him okay because of the reason why he would want to know that you knew about it in advance okay, is because urn, like I know that I can trust you with my like you know what I mean, but he doesn't know that, alright. Okay and so if you explain yes I knew about it in advance uh, I didn't say shit to anybody okay it just shows that basically you know you didn't fuck me up. Because I've told him... I never have to worry about you like screwing me around, ever..."
E6-7 Burns (continuing): "...he can't necessarily sort of empathize with that so simple things like the fact that you knew about it in advance and didn't you know go tell the cops, this is, this thing's gonna happen you know what I mean. . . ..That's like basically is evidence of your trustworthiness.... So basically there's not much choice but to like forget about that kind of thing (i.e. concerns about making false inculpatory remarks because) because.... there's really very little we can do at this point, so."
E7 Al (to Miyoshi): "That's all, I just want to be sure you can be trusted, see" . " What I want to know is the trust between you three."
E8 (Al asks how "tight" things are between Miyoshi and his friends) Miyoshi: "How tight should I explain things..."
Al: "I don't know, what, what did you know about this before they went down to do it?" (Miyoshi gives evasive answers.) Al: "See for some reason you seemed a little hesitant about talking about this. Now that's what I can't figure out because it makes me think maybe you're hiding something from me and maybe from Sebastian."
E9 Al explains that he wants to ask about the crime to ensure that he can trust the boys. He then asks Miyoshi "So how long did you about this before it happened?"
E10 Al (to Miyoshi, about the purpose for his questions): "...I just want to be sure you're trustworthy."
E12 Al (again to Miyoshi, about the purpose of his questions): "Totally for trust." "Totally." "It's all trust. I'm trying to establish in my mind if I can trust you.
E13 Al: "Okay see, but you knew about it ahead of time? That's fuckin' good, that's solid." Back to key
A15 Burns explains that on the evening of this meeting he would otherwise have gone to meet with a man who is going to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in a film that Burns wishes to make with his friend. The wiretap evidence from the house monitor would reveal this to be a lie, thus making it reasonable to infer that this remark is made only to give a seemingly legitimate reason for Burns to avoid any obligation to commit crimes for Al and Gary.
A18-21 Burns refers to a film script written by himself and his friend. Evidence from the houses wiretap would indicate that there is no completed script, and that Burns is lying, presumably to support his later claims that he is too busy to commit crimes.
A21 Burns has been asked by Gary to discuss his film. Burns at first does so superficially, but then introduces the topic of Al's and Gary's expectation that Burns will commit crimes for them. No mention has yet been made of this. Burns states that he has no idea what Al and Gary have planned for Burns, and makes the following remarks (among others) before Gary says anything on the matter.
Burns: "...I can tell you that... to be honest... I'm not suitably interested I guess in, in, [working for Al, committing crimes] cause like, you're you're doin' too much fucking around... my reason for, for sort of doing it (driving the stolen car and maintaining the relationship) is, is more because I, I guess I worry uh like being tough with you guys..." It must be stressed that the first tape recorded remark about the prospect of Burns committing crimes for Al is this one, and that Burns states that he is disinterested and
complies only because he is intimidated.
A22 Burns explains he is under investigation, but has no reason to worry about this except that it makes him wish to avoid of criminal activity: "I'm not worried... I have no reason to worry, but I guess like having, having something pop up on a criminal record now would, it would just kinda fuck me up... I have a problems with a criminal record." (Burns does not have a criminal record.) Burns is at great pains to assure Gary that he doesn't despise Gary's line of work, he simply doesn't want to participate, stating that
" I was so anxious last time about that thing with the car, . . . and I wanted everything covered... it's not like I'm worried about, you know auto theft (the context would indicate that to "worry about auto theft" in this sense would be to worry about the criminality of it from a moral perspective, as the remark seems to distinguish between this and them prospect of getting caught, which he had, in prior remarks, proffered as the object of his concern) or whatever. I mean like, I'm a little worried about that, but uh you know the
girl, well first hand and, and who knows what'11 come of it, I mean but... the problem is it'll affect this other thing right. So that, that's why I'm sort of anxious..."
A23 Burns states that he does not want to commit crimes, explaining that this is particularly the case now that he's been fingerprinted.
A29 Burns explains, after Gary tells him that he won't go to jail for the car theft, that even the possibility of being charged is sufficient to deter him from committing crimes.
A30 Burns appears to indicate his disinterest in crime by suggesting that he would never trust Al and Gary.
A46 Burns: 'I... you know I was sort of getting at earlier is that... I'm a bit busy... this movie thing i- is... the sort of thing that . . . you gotta do now and so uh I'm gonna way..." Burns says he will keep in touch and meet Al and Gary in ten years.
A51 Burns says that he is going to be busy with the film and would prefer not to commit crimes, but suggests that he could perhaps do something if it was "easy" to do.
A53 When Gary asks how Burns knows he. wouldn't have a problem with shooting a criminal who betrayed Gary's criminal organisation, Burns admits he doesn't, "but it's sort of moot point because I guess what I'm also saying is that, there'd be two (sic) many sort of technical reasons why I, I wouldn't necessarily want to do that."
A54-55 Burns tries to show that he's trustworthy by saying that he's been interrogated by detectives. When Gary says that this doesn't prove anything if one is innocent of the crime about which one is being interrogated, Burns agrees he just doesn't have "credentials" 'I... we're at odds and . . . the answer is that there's nothing I can do, because I'm not qualified to say, umm, what I can or cannot do..."
A57 In response to a diatribe by Gary about how Burns needs to work his way up "a slower road," Burns replies " . ..I guess, the thing is, I almost, almost not that motivated right now, because like as I said, right, I just got things to do..." When Gary asks how long he'll be busy, Burns says "A year or better" "A year or something like that... there's no telling what, what things could come up that..." (Recall that Burns before had suggested a duration of ten years.)
A69-70 In response to Al's suggestion that he needs someone who can take care of business, Burns responds, It . ..well I'm not suggesting to you that
(INDECIPHERABLE) umm, (INDECIPHERABLE) uhhh, cause auh, because . . . " No
such thing, but uh 'I. Proper transcription would be useful here, but Burns seems to be denying having committed murder or being capable of it.
A70 In response to Al's suggestion that Burns had the "brains" to plan something like the murder of the Rafays, Burns says "I don't really have the kind of money to do those kinds of things..." and tries yet again to extricate himself from Al and Gary: "my concerns with you is that I don't necessary have the time you need to do lots of work right now... it's like I sort of have things on my plate... Like I say, I'm totally busy..."
A74 Al refuses to accept and ignores these statements of disinterest and continues to act as though Burns wants to work for him, insisting on the necessity of trust, etc. prompting Burns to suggest that in addition to his filled schedule and lack of time, the money he would receive for working for Al would be inconsequential. Al is quite annoyed and tries to convince Burns that the financial rewards are enormous.
A75 Al states that he would like Burns to become a cocaine dealer, stating that Burns had to prove his trustworthiness first. Burns: "Yeah, well (INDECIPHERABLE) I guess auh, cause I guess what I'm thinking is like auh, I'm thinking like the film and you know..."
Al: "When I first met you, you said you need money to make a film, you' wanta make money to make a film?"
Burns: "Sure. I auh..."
Al: "Bottom line, okay?"
Al: "I'm not gonna walk up and hand you two hundred fuckin' thousand dollars, I'd be a fool, you know that for a fact."
Burns: "Yeah, well I wasn't suggesting you do that." This excerpt seems to confirm that both Gary and Al recall Burns saying originally that he needed money to make a film and in this specific excerpt Burns does not seem to contradict this, and as such it would seem that his claim that he now has financing for his film was a ploy to explain his disinterest.
A76 Al says that Burns could become a cocaine dealer but says that Burns has to prove that he can handle it. Burns: "Well, (INDECIPHERABLE) well a lot of problems (INDECIPHERABLE) wanta do on the Northshore cause I, I'm very well known, as auh, a, a, (INDECIPHERABLE) guy." Al explains that Burns could sell drugs as he could get others to "handle the product."
Burns: "Well auh as I say, I'm (INDECIPHERABLE) out there, in the next couple months, and I kinda... and auh, you gonna (INDECIPHERABLE) there's, there's (INDECIPHERABLE) and auh."
Al: "Is there someone to make this film already?" Burns now says that he doesn't need money as he already has $200,000 and will be meeting a man who will double the budget. (Evidence from the house wiretap would likely reveal that the last assertion is a fabrication.) He says in any case his budget will be adequate, and concludes, "... that's what I'm gonna do." Burns suggests that the perception described in above in A75 and elsewhere is a misunderstanding. (It is likely in cross-examination that both officers would express confidence that Burns had in fact stated that he was seeking financing, thus providing further evidence that Burns's assertion on this page is in fact a ploy.)
A77 Al states that he moves $300,000 every 36 hours, and that his biggest problem is that "banks aren't open fuckin' long enough." Burns insists again "I want to do this movie, . . . I will beg very busy."
A79 Al, bizarrely, says that he's not offering Burns a contract yet, and Burns sums up neatly: "Well what I'm saying is that I don't have much time to make... and you're saying well that's fine, cause I haven't give you the contract yet so." (This, incidentally, is when Officer Haslett, realizing Burns is "getting away," raises the fear that Burns is going to be an informer.)
A81 In response to Al's question "Who's financing your movie?'*, Burns replies cryptically "Just auh, a couple guys." Al finally acknowledges what Burns has been saying all along " maybe you don't need me, maybe you don't fuckin' want money, that's fine too." Burns, with evident relief, confirms this: "...actually that sort, sort of what I've been getting at... I'm not that motivated... I got a lot of shit to do, and then you know, the time, but . . . it's almost like auh, I, I feel almost obligated in a way to have, you know do some work with you..."
A82 In an almost completely indecipherable paragraph in the middle of the page Burns seems to indicate his disinterest in committing crimes because of his desire to continue work on his film.
A29/53 Burns maintains to Al that one way or another financing for the film will come through and that the film will take a lot of time and that he's not that motivated to work. Al rightly points out that Gary isn't working hard in an attempt to pressure to Burns to maintain involvement.
A31/53 Burns defends his lawyer, and maintains that he feels safe and knows where he "stands" with respect to the investigation, and that he is simply curious about what the detective are saying about the case. Al keeps asking what to find out.
A35/53 Gary explains that Burns should sabotage the police case against him. Burns says dismissively, "Well yeah okay, anyhow." Gary says "Did you hear what I said, don't give me this anyhow..."
A38/53 Gary: "You were thinking of you-, have no interest in doin' the other thing? Obviously not. No? Do it later?" This page needs to be retranscribed as it is largely incomprehensible. The topic changes suddenly, and in this transcription incomprehensibly in the middle of the page.
A49/53 Al offers a car to Burns, but Burns demurs: "... my problem quite honestly is that, urn like I said I don't know if I'm gonna have time to do what, you know, you might think is appropriate for me to do..." "...I would never want to hit you up for a favour", presumably because Burns does not want to have to do criminal work for Al.
B65 Burns indicates his disinterest in Al's offer by going on about the (then) emerging independent film market in response to Al's demand that Burns "help" him out.
B119 Al once again tries to convince Burns to "work" for him, but Burns is reluctant: "I don't want to stop making it (film), I want to go with it because... beside the fact I want to do it... I bet that we could make more money off this film than whatever you throw at me..."
D22 Burns tries to persuade Al to leave him to make the film, and offers to pay for Al's inconvenience with proceeds from the film, rather than by performing work for Al. Back to key
A23 Burns, having stated several times that he's disinterested in crime, suggests that perhaps if necessary he could do "simple things" for Gary and, Al.
A26 Gary says that when he proposed the auto theft to Burns "you looked like you were gonna shit when Al said this is what we're doin'..."
A43 Gary: " . ..when I saw you on that fuckin' uh , on who's uh car? That's uh, I think you were gonna fuckin' shit. I thought holy fuck, big mistake here."
A44 Gary: "It seems to me that boostin' a car seemed to be uh, at the very outer most extremities of somethin' that you'd be doing."
A50 Burns: "I'm still pretty ignorant". Burns says he isn't capable of crime. He first says, in a mistranscribed line, " . ..I'm not capable of like you know, kicking guy's asses or whatever," to which Gary replies, "Yeah obviously..." (The RCMP transcribed the remark as, "...I'm not capable of... kissin' your guys asses..." And as far as like, what I'm capable of doing, I mean like... like I said like how competent I am like... I mean really." (eventually mumbles into explanation that he would prefer to make the film on A51)
A51 Burns says that he is going to be busy with the film and would prefer not to commit crimes, but suggests that he could perhaps do something if it was "easy" to do. In response to Gary saying "Everything's easy" Burns replies: "Yeah well I don't say because I don't know that this it." Burns attempts to suggest money laundering as something for Gary to tell him about.
A52 Burns explains that although his conscience would not be bothered by murder (Gary has already admitted to murder), he would not be capable of it for "technical reasons." (This remark lead to the headline, "KILLING DOESN'T BOTHER ME" next to a photograph of Burns on the cover of The Province.)
A69-70 Al seems to say that he needs someone who can take care of business (i.e. commit murders) and Burns says he's not capable of that.
A93 Al: "I'm not convinced you can fuckin handle all this shit."
Burns: "Yeah, well, huu, I guess not."
A29/53 Burns: "at the same in time, urn, you know I'm ignorant about how much ah that would concern. It would take and ah, you know, and ah really you know . . . " Burns is remarking that his lack of experience in crime precludes him from knowing precisely how difficult crimes are to commit.
B124 In response to Al's query of whether Burns could kill, Burns replies "doubt it," followed by "I really think that would be very unpleasant. I don't know." After Al again asks "What if I needed it done, and the circumstances were right." Burns again responds "I, I . . . doubt it man... 'cause I think that be very fucking brutal. Fuckin' it'd make me an old man. And my hair falls out..." Back to key
Transcript excerpts that show that Al and Gary are convinced of Burns's guilt, and presume any exculpatory remarks to be mendacious.
A29 Gary: "Like there's uh, it's there, uh you know I don't know, I don't know what this, uh, the end of this movie is or, I don't know what uh, what uh, this thing that you, you say you've done or whatever but, uh you know, I, I don't know." (Burns, prior to this remark, has not given any indication whatsoever that he is guilty of any crime.)
A8/53 Al: "You obviously left somethin' down there that's fuckin' ah, people are asking for."
Burns: "Well, not obviously."
Al: "They want your fuckin' ass for some reason."
A11/53 "Sebastian I know what you didn't tell me. I don't give a fuck! That's why it's not a fuckin' act! I don't give a fuck what you know!"
A13/53 Al: "You didn't do what you did for sixty fuckin' grand on a fuckin' house. Not a fuckin' chance!"
A17/53 Al asserts his presumption of guilt while remarking on motive. He has just expressed concern about Burns's trustworthiness. Burns's response to Al's assertion of Burns's guilt is to attempt to assure Al that he would never turn Al in.
A18/53 Al: " you tell me what's going on down there, that's what I'm asking you. " "You left something behind down there." "What went on down there, what went on down there? You tell me...."
A20/53 Al tries to convince Burns that the police have evidence against him. "They're saying, they have something there." "So why'd you do it? Be candid with me and tell me why you did it. And I can fuckin'-, sure like to find out."
A21/53 Al: "You're [sic] motive is fuckin' more than sixty thousand fuckin' dollars on a house." "Well what is the motive? Not for sixty thousand dollars on a house." "Fuck! Say it, fuck I read, I know."
A27/53 Al : "Want me to tell you what I'm convinced?" "You did that murder." "And that's why you're solid." "I just know what I found out up here. I just told you, I know you did that fuckin' murder all of them."
A28/53 Al : "'cause I can't figure out why you did that for sixty fuckin' grand?"
A30/53 Burns, having been told numerous times that Al "knows" he's guilty and that he is, for this reason only, trustable with compromising information (in non-arrest circumstances) says, "...if you think that.... You- you think that, you think that based on reports and outside sources. Sometime if you-, you go and ask around. And you know, ask them." Burns's tone would seem to be insolent or hostile, as Gary says " don't get your back up man " Gary later says "I'm in the same situations at that time but, I don't know man. Well fuck we're all . . . he's fuckin' blindsided me once, twice, now you're doing it once whatever. I just, I just like dealing . . you know and ah, somehow I'll say one thing, and you say another thing, but it ain't 52 cards that's been fuckin' played over here. I don't know, and probably you do."
A35/53 Gary: "... but I know, I've done a lotta time for guys who were fuckin'
. . . just as clear fuckin' did it. And they're saying no they didn't did it. They ain't gonna fuckin' be sittin' there chasing down something, that ain't there. And you do what the fuck you want, if it's there, you get rid of it. That's, that's the pure and simple you should do and ah, otherwise ah-ah, I-I been that fuckin' route man and as long as I've been sitting there, they're still doing time...."
A37/53 Al : "How was it planned?" "Well you're hear (sic) to fuckin' day because of what I read in . . . I told you that day. How'd you plan all of this?"
A54/53 (labelled START OF TAPE 4, SIDE A) Al: "You committed the fuckin' perfect crime, here haven't you? You're fuckin' auh, you're scared as hell."
B68 Al: "You can take care of business the way you took care of it down there, you can always look after the business I want looked after."
B69 Al asks Burns how his hair came to be in the shower mixed with blood.
Burns: "Well, I guess at some point I must've been in the shower and, uh, at some point there was blood in the shower and, uh,"
Al: "Forget about it fuckin', you're fuckin' makin' circles. I didn't come down on last night's train. How did the dead people's blood get in the fuckin' shower with your hair?"
B77 Burns: "...if there [sic] scenario is that, ya know Sebastian has killed someone..."
Al: "Let's forget about this scenario, they know you killed him. That's in the report is fuckin'. Gary was talkin' about green and black. That in, that report is so fuckin' uh, white whatever, so clear, it's unreal."
B87 Burns suggests that the physical evidence could be accounted for innocently. Al: "Okay. Stop the fuckin' bullshit there. Stop the bullshit there. Right now you're all but fuckin' lying to me."
B88 Burns: "I'm not goddamn lying to you."
Al: "You are fuckin' givin' me this song and dance and everything you just told me. That you told me last time I talked to you that, which I don't know fuck all about. You come back and found these fuckin' bodies. You found them, the report I fuckin' read. Fuckin' basically spells out black and white. That, the police fuckin' know you killed these people... So I'm not gonna have this bullshit, you lying to me now, or fuckin' uh, you come back and found these fuckin' bodies. You must think I come down on last night's train. The minute you start thinkin' that about me..."
Burns: "Holy Christ,"
Al: "And this fuckin'..." (...)
Burns: "I... To be civil, tell your friends check to see if there was any blood on the fuckin' clothes."
Al: "You be civil with me. Don't fuckin' lie to me. Don't take me for a fuckin' stupid man." "You're always started tellin' me you come back and found these bodies that I fuckin' know for a fact..." Burns says that the evidence is not compelling, but that it is worthwhile checking if it could be misrepresented as incriminating.
Al: "Don't be a smart ass with me man."
B101 Al: "No no this can be answered 'cause it's fuckin' you can answer cause I wanna know. I will, it'll be on my on my fuckin' mind lots. Why did you do this? Answer me that fuckin' thing. I just wannna know, just wanna know it's on my mind. Was it for money? Tell me, it's so fuckin' simple answer just tell me that. It's not as though, I know you fuckin' did it. You know you did it. The police even fuck know you did it. We'll take care of the police, uh I wanna know for the peace of fuckin' mind."
B115 Al: "You're saying they could find hair from five fuckin' days ago, well that's fucking great. The report I read fuckin' puts you there. You know that, I know that."
A21 Burns explains he does not want to work for Al because of, among other things, his disinterest and lack of time, and that "... my reason for, for sort of doing it is, is more cause uh I, I guess I worry uh like being tough with you guys..."
A24 This page needs retranscription but includes Burns remarking "you established the tone." Burns seems to be remarking on Gary's control of the conversation, and by extension, the nature of their relationship, which is the subject of their conversation.
A30 Burns has stated several times that he's disinterested in committing crimes for Gary and Al and has used a variety of excuses, favouring the explanation that he is prevented from committing crime by the investigation of him. At the beginning of this page Burns explains that there is a great deal of press coverage of this investigation and that for this reason he cannot commit crimes because even an allegation about a minor crime would be reported widely in the press. Gary does not acknowledge Burns's expression of disinterest and instead describes him as talking in circles, and later says of his dissatisfaction with Burns's excuses that "it's a matter of fuckin' uh trust."
A47-49 Burns attempts to obviate his obligation to commit crimes and to prove his trustworthiness by suggesting that in the future he would like to give money to Al and Gary so that they could invest it in their criminal enterprise. Gary eliminates this escape by saying that the same trust must exist regardless. Gary remarks that many friends are not trustworthy, to which Burns says, "Fortunately I've had enough things to uh eliminate anyone I don't trust man." Gary eliminates this escape also by asserting that this cannot be known to be true unless he and his friends are together guilty of a crime.
A81 In response to Al's question "Who's financing your movie?", Burns replies cryptically "Just auh, a couple guys." Al finally acknowledges what Burns has been saying all along 'I... maybe you don't need me, maybe you don't fuckin' want money, that's fine too." Burns, with evident relief, confirms this: " ...actually that sort, sort of
what I've been getting at... I'm not that motivated... I got a lot of shit to do, and then you know, the time, but . . . it's almost like auh, I, I feel almost obligated in a way to have, you know do some work with you..."
A85 Gary: "We're gonna them anyway." Gary explains they're going to do checks on the case regardless of whether Burns wants them done or not. Burns describes himself as having been "really scared" during the auto theft scenario.
A91 After Burns's numerous explanations of his disinterest in crime Al asserts: " Well let me tell you something Sebastian, We'll scout that fuckin' Northshore" meaning that Burns will become a drug dealer.
A7/53 Al: "We'll talk again. And I'll tell ya we're leaning on you again."
A13/53 Al: "Tell me. No don't fuckin' nod your head it's ah, situation where ah, we're gonna look after each other."
A38/53 This page is badly transcribed but Burns, after having indicated disinterest in committing crimes seems to be saying that regardless of his lack of interest Al and Gary had a crime planned for him on this and every other occasion of their meetings. The word "furious" is transcribed as Burns's description of his reaction to this.
B26 Gary inquires as to whether Burns or Miyoshi are comfortable with the tasks before them. Miyoshi asks a question about the length of time for which they will be performing the criminal tasks required, to which Gary responds "Ask no questions, receive no answers, man."
B64 Al: "If you want me to help you I can help you. But, you're gonna help me." "Well, what you did today. Keep on doing things like this today but in a bigger way..."
B71 Burns: "...that is the power you have over me, okay, is that you're going to guarantee that I'm not going to fuck you around for that very goddamn reason. . . ..you got power over me so I'm not going to fuck you around" For the purpose of this specific section, this remark shows that Burns is not free to disregard any of Al's instructions, including orders to commit crimes.
B117 Al: "Work together, live together, you're happy. But don't fuckin' sell me short, and don't ever let your fuckin' friends start selling me short, 'cause you start selling me short, you'll be in the (INDECIPHERABLE) hurt..." Back to key
A30 Burns remarks about the prevalent presumption, in the news media and amongst the police, of guilt despite innocence.
A31 Burns says "I'll totally level with you" and proceeds to explain how he has been falsely accused of a horrible crime. He explains how he has been harassed by the police for almost a year.
A47-48 Burns remarks that he can trust his remaining friends because those with whom he did not have a secure relationship would now be inclined to believe the false allegations against him.
A66 Burns provides an exculpatory explanation of the allegations to Al.
A67 When asked about his role in the homicide, Burns says he's accused of being a murderer and attributes this to his having stayed at the house for a few days and the absence of any other suspects.
A69-70 Al indicates his presumption that Burns is guilty, to which Burns says "Urn, well, I'm not suggesting to you that (INDECIPHERABLE umm, (INDECIPHERABLE) uhhh, cause auh, because..." "...No such thing, but auh" Burns states that he does not want Al to misunderstand and presume Burns's guilt.
Al: "Well with your fuckin' brains, obviously you could plan something like that."
Burns: "Well yeah, I auh, I don't really have, the kind of money to do those kinds of things (INDECIPHERABLE)"
Al: "What's that?"
Burns: "Huh, that, well that's all the kind of story that I'd rather purchase than undertake myself but..." Burns proceeds to explain that he is going to be very busy with filming and doesn't have time to work for Al.
A71-73 Burns explains why he is being falsely accused.
A73 Al finally acknowledges Burns's assertions of innocence, and remarks "And you're being fuckin' sewered."
A80 Al asks Burns to tell him about the homicides. Burns explains that he and his friends came back home to find the family dead.
A8/53 Burns explains that the police are investigating him despite the lack of evidence because of the enormous pressure put upon them by the community.
A19/53 Al asks about the crime scene to which Burns says "Listen I, you know as much I do, okay." Burns says that his body matter would be all over the crime scene because of his having lived at the house for five days and indicates his fear that the police might fabricate or might have already fabricated evidence. Back to key
A19/53 Burns: "Listen I, you know as much as I do, okay." and "(Beginning of remark incomprehensible - needs to be retranscribed) . . . if that's the case how the fuck should I know what they're gonna to fabricate. You know what I mean? They had months before they, before they finally asked for hair and blood samples and they just fuckin' making something up in all that time."
Al: "Was the lead down there?..."
Burns: "well like I said to you, I was in the house for five days, hang around the house for five days? Sleep in the bed, the hair's gonna be there in the room."
A20/53 Burns asserts that he feels police's public claims that they have physical evidence are false.
A21/53 Burns: "Listen you know as much as I do, about-, . . . there's nothing I can say that can help you if you don't-."
Al: "No but I don't want to question blindly."
Burns: "...if you're not happy don't ask around about it if you don't want me (the correct transcription would probably be "...if you don't want to...") but if you were saying you were going to anyhow so there. But I, there's nothing I can say that can help you ah-.."
Burns then makes cynical remarks about the police's allegations about Burns's motive and the reasons why he has been falsely accused, and asserts that there is no evidence.
A32/53 Burns suggests that if the police were to arrest him that they would assault him. He states that he feels the police's requests for DNA sample from he and Rafay were to portray Rafay and Burns as being uncooperative and not because they had any legitimate physical evidence.
A33-35/53 Burns, continuing from, above states that the requests were also made to stall the probate lawyer's efforts to close the estate, as to allow this would be to reveal their lack of evidence. Al instructs Burns to think about evidence he could have left, to which Burns says "there's nothing to leave." Then later, Burns says "I-1 mean, I-I don't have clue what, what, if anything that they'd be suggesting they tie me too..." He then explains that the presence of his body matter at the crime scene is explained by his stay at the house. "I have no idea what they are suggesting..."
A35/53 Gary urges Burns not to deny his guilt and to plan to eliminate any possible evidence against him, to which Burns says "Well yeah ok, anyhow," in a manner indicating complete disinterest. This angers Gary.
B74 Burns explains that any body matter at the crime scene is explained by his presence and innocent activities at the house, and indicates his cynicism about the supposed evidence.
B87 Burns states that potential physical evidence at the crime scene would be a result of his having stayed at the house, to which Al replies "Stop the bullshit."
B111 Burns states that his having used a shower two days before the crime could have resulted in its seemingly incriminating presence in the shower. Later, he states that police and expert witnesses would misrepresent the evidence as they are paid to give incriminating testimony.
B113 Burns says that a forensic scientist may misrepresent the crime scene in a way to indicate his guilt.
B114 Burns says that the police and forensic experts may misrepresent the crime scene as containing conclusive evidence.
C10 Burns says that the his supposedly incriminating body matter at the crime scene could have come to be there on any of the preceding days when he was staying at the house and using the showers.
C12 Burns: "...there is this possibility that there can be things that I would know about that like they're basically fabricating to look like they count..."
When Al indicates disapproval of this response, Burns suggests the possibility
of evidence which is innocently explainable but that is being misrepresented
C24-26 Burns describes the alibi witnesses' allegations of suspicious behaviour as being preposterous, and in one case as being an outright fabrication.
C34 Burns is asked whether the motive had involved a plan to make a film, and Burns explains that this event actually prevented them from making a film using free equipment at Cornell University, where Rafay was enrolled and where Burns should have liked to apply.
C52 Burns is asked whether Atif did not exhibit grief after the crime. Burns explains that Rafay did, and that Burns himself was crying after the crime, but that later the police lied and described them as having very little emotion.
FURTHER EXCULPATORY REMARKS ARE NOT TRANSCRIBED BY THE RCMP BECAUSE OF A TAPE SIDE CHANGE. (Notice that during supposedly inculpatory remarks, not a single word of dialogue is missed. In the May 6 transcript, at least one significant wiretap portion was not transcribed ostensibly for this same reason, despite its actually having been recorded and available.)
D16 Burns describes how the fingerprint on the box is explained by his and Rafay's having searched through the boxes (innocently) prior to the crime.
D16-D17 Burns describes how the police lied and stated that nothing was stolen from the house during the crime and hindered any attempts to determine whether anything actually was stolen. Describes police as "pigs".
D52 Burns attempts to discuss the fact that "some" of the evidence must be being misrepresented by the police as being incriminating.
E14 Burns attempts to discuss the possibility that the police may fabricate evidence, mentioning that the police have a hairbrush of his which would contain a great deal of his hair, thus enabling such fabrication. He later expresses his concern that the forensic evidence being sabotaged was not legitimate in the first place. Back to key
The significance of this section is that it demonstrates that for Burns and his friends, the actual sabotage was of secondary importance to the urgent obligation to follow Al's orders.
B100 Burns states three times that he believes there are at least two laboratories. Al finally says, "Who gives a fuck what you heard?" After some further conversation about the incompleteness of Al's information, Burns later remarks, "Okay, alright, get every lab and like if you get every lab then it's like -" at which point he is cut off by Al.
C36 Burns asks if the sabotage is only going to occur at one lab, and asks, "How many labs they working on?" (See Bl00.) Al does not allow for elaboration on this topic.
E13 Burns remarks that Al did not specify that the hair replacements should include the hair roots.
E13 Burns states his concern that the police would fabricate more evidence if the first evidence was sabotaged.
E14 Burns states his concern that the police might plant more evidence if the existing evidence is sabotaged, and indicates that it is his belief that that is what occurred in the first place. Burns finally says, "Okay, well I just hope they don't-" but is cut off by Al.
NOTE: The house wire tap would have intercepted conversations about the
boys' concerns that the plan was unsound. Back to key
Transcript excerpts that show concern on the part of Al and Gary that Rafay and Miyoshi might not be trustworthy and that they would only be trustworthy if they are guilty.
A67 Al (about Burns's friends): "How solid are these guys? like how, how, how much are you gonna be hung out to dry?" "How much are your friends gonna hang you out to dry?"
A68 Al (continuing): "Solid people?"
Al: "So, if they knew what you were into here?" (Burns assures Al that they would not betray anyone to the police.)
A85 Al: (about Gary's licence plate number) "Who does know? You got that written down?"
A24/53 Al asks if Burns can trust his friend. Burns says he can.
B82 Al: "None of his hairs fell into any incriminating places. Now why, why, did yours? That's what I want to know. Were you being set up by this guy or what?"
Al: "So why is your hair all there, and his isn't?" "Why do you think? I, I 'cause I don't fuckin' know. Why would you both be there during the fuckin uh job and uh , your hair's there and his isn't? Like is he setting you up or what?"
B84 Al: "I know if it was against me and that fuckin' guy sittin' over there was clean I'd be thinkin'; huh? What went on here man?"
B96 Al: "And why your partner's, got no fuckin' thing against him that I read. . . . . I'm thinking what the fuck is going on? Is there such a fuckin' fuck up this whole thing was? That, is it going to bite everybody in the ass?"
B105 Al: ' . ..you go kill these fuckin' people and I'll fuckin' do this and you do this (referring to his perception of Burns's role in the murder as the perpetration of the murder itself, as opposed to his friends who presumably would purport to compensate for their lack of involvement in other ways, unrelated to the crime, such as cleaning the kitchen in their shared accommodations). And then you're the one hanging out here to fuckin' dry....
That's what it comes down to." "I fuckin' hope these guys are solid, man.They know you did it, they better not now about me, what I'm gonna do for you. You got that? I, I don't give a fuck if your (sic) man and wife I don't care what you guys are, see what I'm saying?" "Because they've got nothing to lose right now."
B106 Al (continuing): "In fact probably they can be the stars they could come out and fuckin' at the end and say hey Sebastian..." (Burns attempts to persuade Al that his friends would not become informants.) "Whatever. " "...they'll also end up getting that fuckin' money." "I'm just telling you the way it is in life.Which I can see here right now...." "....These two fuckin' guys decide for some reason, hey.... let's get rid of fuckin' Sebastian here and fuckin' uh, Jimmy and the other guy are fuckin' happy. And you take a fall, you know who else takes a fall after everything's done...." (Al, against Burns'
protestations, explains that Al himself will also "take a fall" .)
B107 Al: "No, but it's both these guys decide..." "...let's drop fuckin' uh, Sebastian and Al." "...these guys better not know about me and you are doing."
B117 Al: "... But don't fuckin' sell me short, and don't ever let your fuckin' friends start selling me short, cause you start selling me short, you'll be in the (INDECIPHERABLE) hurt..."
B127 Al: "You ever thought your two friends here fuckin' used you to make money? " "What I'm trying to get at, you sure there's (sic) not going to give you up." "In my fuckin' world you always got to be concerned about that."
B128 Al: "Well I just hope they don't give you up."
C20 Al (about Rafay): "He can be trusted, eh?"
C21 Al: "I don't even know who he is, I gotta meet him before too long, I'll tell you that right now, 'cause when we have this plan in motion, I gotta make sure that cocksucker's solid. I mean fuckin' solid." (Later, about the future occasion of the sabotage) "-that's when uh, everybody's gotta keep their fuckin' mouth shut."
C22 Al: "How solid's Atif?" "Well why wasn't he helping you, though." (repeats this question twice) "Well I've been involved in a few jobs in my fuckin' day, and if one guys's standing around telling uh, me to do this, do that, do this, unless I'm working for him and not with him, it makes me think that fuckin' guy's a, hasn't got the balls to do it."
Burns (dismissively): "Well, whatever."
Al: "No it's not whatever. I'll tell you why it's not whatever, because I gotta be sure this cunt's solid."
C23 Al (after Burns has said Rafay thinks "nothing" of his family having been killed): "Good. As long as he's not gonna fuckin' break down after and say oh fuck it's Sebastian."
C30 Al : "I'm thinking you're thinking, I'm thinking this fuckin' guy has fuckin' planned this pretty smart. I'm still worried about little fuckin' Atif, that he's standing back there with his clothes on while you're running around the fuckin' house in your fuckin' underwear uh, using a baseball bat, as long as that fucker's solid, you know what I'm saying?" "If he ever ratted you out, no, I'm gonna tell you, because if he ever did, would he be able to say, I saw Sebastian hit my dad with a bat, was he that close enough to see that?"
C32 Al: Whatever, see what I'm ask, why I'm asking. these, because at the end I don't know fuckin' Jimmy coming down saying oh I knew about it before and uh, didn't I told 'em I didn't want no part of it. See why I'm saying, 'cause these three guys, these two guy with you better be fuckin' solid." Burns says he knew beforehand.
Al: "That's one thing... He didn't rat you out..."
C34 Al: "Well I can't fuckin' say it enough, I hope these guys are solid."
Burns: "Well, whatever, I mean..."
Al: "No, not whatever, because now I'm gonna be involved in this." "Well if they helped you plan it, and they didn't rat you out ahead of time. I just wonder why Jimmy didn't go down and help you out with it."
C39 Al: "And there's gonna be a lot of other things, so, I'll decide then if I can trust him. I, I don't know the fuckin' guy so I don't know." "I have one concern in my mind and I always have concerns in the back of my mind, is he let you swing that baseball bat and he didn't help you."
C40 Al: "I notice he also stayed up in Canada when you were doing, doing the job, that's also on my mind." "What I like about it, he knew it was gonna happen beforehand and he didn't even fuckin' stop you so, and he didn't rat you out."
C52 Burns: "...I shouldn't even really be saying this because I know that they're not gonna you know fuck anyone around but just for your peace of mind, you could just confidently think well those guys wouldn't fuck me around because they'd know that you know they'd be dead as soon as fuckin', two days after they did..."
Al: "I want to be sure they don't because once they do lets say, say..." (Burns interrupts on C53)
C53 Burns: "No well, I guess what I mean is that they are, they are fuckin' smart enough to know what will happen, because..."
Al: "And I'm smart enough to make sure I'll find out about them before, see." "See what I mean? But those are two things in my mind that I just, I gotta be sure I check 'em, you can understand what I'm saying, right?" "You did all the work and they just sat back and did the planning and fuckin' said let's let Sebastian do the job."
D15 Al: "I been thinking all fucking day . . . I just . . . nothing's come back . . That's why Atif better be fuckin' solid. If I don't think he is, I'm out of here."
D35 Al (to Rafay): "Yeah, well, I'm a little, he told me some stuff and I'm curious about a lot of things but I'm curious about, the biggest thing is trust." "Because as I explained to Sebastian yesterday, trust, like, I want to be sure he can trust you and want to be one thousand percent sure that I can trust you."
D36 Al (to Rafay): "My concern here, can you be trusted. You see what I'm sayin'." "And what I'm thinkin' now is... Sebastian'd be in more fuckin' shit than you for, see why, you know why." "...you watched." "You didn't take part." "You see what I'm gettin' at." "That's why I gotta be sure you are solid." "Why didn't you swing a bat?"
D46 Al emphasises to Rafay the need for "trust", which means that he had better not "dare" keep any information about the organisation, and explains that the reason Rafay is there (presumably as opposed to being killed) is that he is knowledgeable about computers and could therefore be an asset.
D47-48 Al (to Rafay): "That's why I told Sebastian I wanted to talk to you 'cause, my concern is that you can do him damage, but also he says that you're a man that knows how to run a computer." "It's the third guy we got to worry about. Sebastian guarantees me he's solid, what do you think?" "That's the only guy we gotta worry about so you got to stay solid. I don't want him knowing about my business yet. But I'll be talk to Jimmy whenever I get time because I don't need nobody fuckin' saying hey, Mr. Police, here's what I can tell you. And here's something else I can tell you."
D48 Burns and Rafay try to persuade Al that Miyoshi is trustworthy.
D51 Al: "Okay trust is the biggest thing here, man." "Trust is the biggest thing." (Rafay then attempts to persuade Al that he will not inform on Al.)
E2 Al (to Miyoshi): "...the biggest thing is I gotta be sure I can trust you because uh, there's a lot of things on my mind that... trust is everything, if you haven't got fuckin' trust we're gonna be...never do business together, see what I mean?" "You gotta understand. I got a few concerns..." (Al asksBurns if Burns has informs Miyoshi of their sabotage plan, to which Burns responds in the negative. (The audio tape from the house wiretap would contain evidence that this is a lie, that Miyoshi did actually know about the
plan.) Al mentions it to Miyoshi.) "...once I do that, that's when the total trust's gonna have to come into play and I want to be sure you can be trusted."
E3 Al: " the biggest thing is trust, and I gotta know I can trust you. What I like about you so far is that uh, when they were going down to the States you didn't fuckin' rat about." (Miyoshi makes some exculpatory remarks, and when Al indicates his anger at this Burns apologises for Miyoshi.)
Al: Yeah I understand he's being clever, but this isn't the time to be clever, I gotta
be sure I can trust him."
E4 Al: "Let's be honest." (Proceeds to ask questions requiring incriminating answers. "...I'11 tell you the reason I'm asking is I gotta be sure you can be trusted." "See what I'm saying? I mean not hiding nothing from me right now because it's not gonna anybody any good. If I can't trust you I can't trust anybody 'cause you're involved with me right now.... And I gotta be sure I can trust all three of you."
E6 Burns to Miyoshi, while Al listens: "...the question in his head is why, why you didn't you guys do as much. . . . . And basically urn, for him it is to like it's to your credit for you to explain that to him okay because of the reason why he would want to know that you knew about it in advance okay, is because urn, like I know that I can trust you with my life you know what I mean, but he doesn't know that, alright. Okay and so if you explain yes I knew about it in advance uh, I didn't say shit to anybody okay it just shows
that basically you know you didn't fuck me up. Because I've told him... I never have to worry about you like screwing me around, ever..."
E6-7 Burns (continuing): "...he can't necessarily sort of empathize with that so simple things like the fact that you knew about it in advance and didn't you know go tell the cops, this is, this thing's gonna happen you know what I mean. . . ..That's like basically is evidence of your trustworthiness. ..there's really very little we can do at this point, so."
E7 Al: "That's all, I just want to be sure you can be trusted, see. "What I want to know is the trust between you three."
E8 (Al asks how "tight" things are between Miyoshi and his friends) Miyoshi: "How tight should I explain things..."
Al: "I don't know, what, what did you know about this before they went down to do it?" (Miyoshi gives evasive answers.)
Al: "See for some reason you seemed a little hesitant about talking about this. Now that's what I can't figure out because it makes me think maybe you're hiding something from me and maybe from Sebastian."
E10 Al (to Miyoshi, about the purpose for his questions): "...I just want to be sure you're trustworthy."
E12 Al (again to Miyoshi, about the purpose of his questions): "Totally for trust." "Totally." "It's all trust. I'm trying to establish in my mind if I can trust you."
E13 Al: "...I just want to know how fuckin' much you know in advance and uh, how much of a role you played in it to uh, so how much you got to lose if he gets popped, you know what I mean?" "...you knew about it ahead of time? That's fuckin' good, that's solid." Back to key
Transcript excerpts that show the extent of Gary's and Al's criminal operation and resources, and the practical considerations which would incline them to commit a murder in order to protect the sound operation of their organization. This section also includes evidence of Burns's perception of Al and Gary as having such resources and inclinations. This section is of significance also because it contains numerous disclosures by the criminals about their activities, which could all presumably become a liability should
Burns become an informant. As the entire evening was orchestrated by Al, it would seem that these disclosures were permitted, and perhaps even encouraged, by Al for reasons best accounted for in sections 1 and 10, specifically All/53 (I'... I don't give a fuck what you know").
A8 Gary refers to his ability to easily procure a forged or false driver's licence...
A10 . ..and forged or false Medicare cards.
A11 Gary and "Woody" refer to organized criminal activity in Canada (specifically Quebec, it would seem in this instance) and the U.S.A..
A12 Woody produces two handguns and indicates that they were recently used in a homicide.
A22 Burns: "I mean like, I'm a little worried about that (the auto theft) but uh, you know the girl, well first hand and, and who know what'11 come of it..."
A26 Gary explains that they kill wives and families of objectionable colleagues, and that in the scenario described it insured that the victim of the crime would not attempt to press charges or give evidence
A27-28 Gary explains that his organization kills potential informants, and describes and occasion wherein he was charged with murder and was denied bail, but was ultimately freed because the witness who had agreed to give (presumably eyewitness) testimony against him was killed before the trial, in a murder contract arranged by Al. (See insert page containing portions of conversation occurring during the change of tape sides (conspicuously) not transcribed by the RCMP (omission on A27)
A30 Gary states, "I uh, but I sense something untrustworthy here..." Burns responds, "Well I explained further then I " whereupon he is interrupted by Gary who says, "Well, it's not a matter of explainin' further, it's a matter of uh, it's a matter of fuckin' uh trust." He later says, "...but the fact that you're, that, you're reluctant and I can see why you're reluctant. But that has me wonderin', thinkin' that maybe I should be reluctant too." It is unclear precisely in what sense Gary would be "reluctant". It, would seem to
be a sinister euphemism.
A44 The RCMP transcript contains an account of Gary saying, "What do ya think we're gonna do?" to Burns. This is a mistranscription. The actual remark is, "What do you think we do," in response to which Burns states that he believes Al and Gary are involved in auto thefts, insurance fraud, narcotics, homicide for hire, trafficking.
A47 Gary states that it is essential that Burns be trustworthy regardless of what their relationship is - even if he is not committing crimes.
A49 Gary emphasizes the importance of trust, and says that if the "trust" is not there, "it's not worth the risk." Again, this remark contains threatening ambiguity.
A69 Al asks Burns about the Bellevue homicides, his sole reason being to ensure Burns's trustworthiness: "I just wanta be sure..." Al expresses concern that Burns might have been followed to the meeting. (text should be retranscribed: Al refers to his needing to know that business has been "taken care of." This could be a reference to the investigation of Burns or Burns's capabilities as a potential employee of Al.)
A70 Al: "Well with your fuckin' brains, obviously you could plan something like that." This remark demonstrates that murder is common place in Al's operation and his interest in improving their murder strategies.
A86 Burns: " he found out who I was, and he went through all his connections, and just checked me out right?" "See if I was gonna turn you in, then I, assume that it's done, in fact this guy goes, and he's reading about me alright, and he checks with the RCMP and" "...He checked with whoever, and he, he does his research and he reads about me, alright." Burns states that he feels he could not make a secret deal with the police because Al would immediately be informed.
A87-88 Burns states that he believed that the car theft was something much more dangerous than a car theft. He considered the idea that there might be corpses in the trunk of the car and that he was being "set up." Gary remarks that " it took a lot of guts right now to fuckin' tell me that, not knowing that if you say that there's always that potential, shit hits the fan ...knowing what I've done in the past...." Gary refers to Burns knowing that Gary has murdered people in the past and it is clear that the potential to which he refers is that Gary might have responded to Burns's disclosure by murdering Burns.
A88 Burns: "Obviously he's gonna have enough in his books to figure how to get back at me, right... if I fuckin' him up in some way, obviously he's gonna, you know, screw me up in the biggest way..."
A91 Burns states that he noticed that the stolen car was one obviously used by a parent with children.
A11/53 Al: "Gary's fuckin', a fuckin' solid man, cost me fuckin' weighty grand to get that fuckin' guy out of fuckin' jail for different reasons. Why I got him out that's fine. He was in a fuckin' ja-, I'm, that's fine he was worth . . . fuckin' not a penny. Not a fuckin' day not a dime." (Al is referring presumably to the murder of the informant Gary describes in A27)
A16/53 Al: "Murder in this fuckin' city every day. Gary I trust that cunt with a fuckin' ah-, my life."
A18/53 Al: "Like I told you cost me eighty fuckin' grand to get him outta fuckin' jail, but I don't get two fuck's if it cost me two hundred fuckin' grand. What the fuck, he'll make me fuckin'-, in my lifetime, ten times that amount."
A21/53 Al : "Sebastian don't start fuckin' trying to think like I do. I've lived and died this way, you're motive is more than sixty thousand dollars on a house."
B18 Miyoshi asks Burns how careful they should be about divulging information revealing their personal identities. Burns remarks that Al and Gary have the resources to know precisely who they are and could access any information associated with their names in the public domain.
B67 Al: " . ..now this-this is no time to play games. Right now it's costin' me money."
B71 Burns: "...I just assume that... you with your connections and... whatever, and all of your money and power and stuff..." Burns proceeds to explain his belief that Al would kill him if Burns displeased him and that even in jail he could be killed by Al.
B89 Al: "I'm here 'cause I think I can fuckin' make money out of you, That's (sic) why I'm fuckin' here, don't ever get that confused with something right now it's financial with me." Burns's life is of no inherent value to Al.
D3 Gary describes himself assaulting the man who was one day late with his payment and says that he told the man that "uh next time it happened I'd chop his fuckin' uh, old lady's hand off. And fuckin uh, 'til you paid she fuckin' sittin' there bleeding."
D5 Gary: "Yeah some guy waiting on the side of the road (LAUGHING INDECIPHERABLE)". In the indecipherable portion Gary describes a man as bleeding after being assaulted because of Burns's error in counting the money.
D7 Gary says that he believes he broke the jaw of the man whom he assaulted.
D10 Gary: "Yeah he had a fuckin' attitude. But not anymore, man."
D27 Al remarks that even in legitimate business practice he would intimidate any competitors from depriving him of his business. Back to key
A21 Burns: "My reason for, for sort of doing it is, is more because uh I, I guess I worry uh like being tough with you guys."
A22 Burns (about the auto-theft): "'...I mean like, I'm a little worried about that but uh, you know the girl, well first hand and, and who knows what'll come of it...."
A26 Gary says that when he proposed the auto theft to Burns "you looked like you were gonna shit when Al said this is what we're doin'..."
A43 Gary: 'I... when I saw you on that fuckin' uh, on who's uh car? That's uh, I think you were gonna fuckin' shit. I thought holy fuck, big mistake here."
A65 Burns: "...I was anxious, 'cause I didn't, I didn't really know everything that was going on...", regarding the auto theft.
A85 Burns explains that he took Gary's license plate number "Because that was back when I was really scared."
A88 Burns states that he had considered the possibility that there were corpses in the back of the car. Back to key
The significance of Al's research is that it shows the extent of Al's concern that Burns's charges may threaten Al, as it is urgent enough for Al to expend time and money and to use his underworld resources. It reveals that this concern is the sole reason for Burns's having been summoned to the Four Seasons Hotel on May 6 and for the precise manner of Al's and Gary's treatment of him. It reveals that Al's conviction of Burns's guilt existed before the May 6 meeting, and also his attendant fear that Burns might be arrested and inform on Al. It also, incidentally, reveals that Al's resources include confidential police information. This section also includes excerpts which demonstrate Burns's belief, stemming from before the May 6 meeting, that Al would have researched Burns and had the resources to do so.
A69 Al: "What's this triple homicide about? I think I know about it anyway, but you tell me."
Burns: "You probably heard about it, or read about it."
A77 Al: "And from what everything I've read about you, and I've read about you. I've read about you lots in the last fuckin' week. Cause I made a point of finding out about you. You know something, that's why you're here tonight, cause I've read about you, I've read about you."
A78 Burns states that at the time of the auto theft he believed that Al and Gary had done research on him.
A84 Al: "I did a little fuckin' checking, some research, whatever, found, ut lots about you. And uh, I don't know, I found out a lot." "But, I you want, we can do some checks in the states for you, for fuck all. You don't have to do anything."
A85 Burns: "Well in that case if you, auh, do your checks, I wouldn't mind auh, knowing what's going on."
Gary: "We're gonna [do] them anyway."
A86 Burns states that he believes Al has done checks with his "connections" and with the RCMP.
A11/53 Al mentions that Gary does not know what Al found out about Burns this week. He describes Gary as being a little shocked by the discovery of the allegations.
A16/53 Al " I heard a lot about you." He then indicates that he wants Burns as a personal crime servant who will perform services for Al exclusively.
A20-21/53 Al : "Be candid with me and tell me why you did it. And I can fuckin'-, sure like to find out. But the last thing I-, is go askin' questions blindly." "No but I-I don't want to question blindly."
A31/53 Al: (sic - should be upper case "CT" - no preceding text) " 'cause if I wanna fuckin' find out I'll pay money to find out."
A36-37/53 Al refers to articles that he's read.
A37/53 Al: "Well you're here to fuckin' day because of what I read in . . . I told you that day."
B62 Al states that he has confidential police reports detailing forensic evidence believed by the police to be incriminating to Burns.
B67 Al: "he's made inquiries down there. Or he's asked to see a certain file..." "Right now its costin' me money."
B117 Al: " . ..one phone call and I can say fuckin' forget about everything and I'm walking out of here an so are they are. Or so, maybe because they're already involved I still gotta pay them off, that's my fuckin' big man." (in reference to the police infiltrator)
C9 Al produces a (fake) confidential police document, provided by his informant.