injusticebusters logo

Brian Dueck's examination (6)


168

920 Q Now, do you recall why you would have shown up

if you weren't subpoenaed to be there?

A Well, it was my case, why wouldn't I be there?

I have an interest in it.

921 Q Well, it was your case, I'm just wondering, did

you tell Matt that you didn't want to testify?

A No.

922 Q Did Matt tell you that you shouldn't testify?

A No.

923 Q You were, in fact, the person that had

interviewed the children, and there were the

tapes, did you not say to Matt something to the

effect, "I would certainly like to be there to

give evidence as to those interviews"?

A No. I mean it was a decision that was made to

put the children on the stand to see if that

would carry the prelim. I had no objection to

that.

924 Q So in other words, you had no objection to it,

which meant that the whole matter was broached

with you before the preliminary hearing?

A Well, as I say, I knew that I wasn't going to

testify, I didn't get a subpoena. I knew when

the hearing was going.

925 Q But you also said just a minute ago that the

children were going to be testifying on their


169

own?

A That's right, they were going to be testifying.

926 Q Did you know before the preliminary hearing that

none of those video tapes would be shown to

Judge Finley?

A No.

927 Q Were you involved in the decision not to show

Judge Finley those video tapes?

A No.

928 Q Were you involved in any decision to keep from

Judge Finley certain disclosure of the Crown?

A No.

929 Q Were you involved in any decision not to give to

Judge Finley any of the audio tapes of the

children?

A Audio tapes? I'm not sure what you're talking

about.

930 Q Were there not audio tapes, do you have some

audio tapes?

A Are they audio tapes made from the videos?

931 Q They're audio tapes of you made in terms of

giving these occurrence reports.

A Really. Where did they get them?

932 Q I have no idea.

MR. GERRAND: So, I don't understand any of

these questions. Why would police officers or


170

prosecutors put before a preliminary hearing

judge the transcriptions of what a police

officer dictated in an occurrence report? You

can go ahead and pursue it but you're fishing up

a well, Mr. Borden.

MR. BORDEN: Right, and I think we're catching

a really big trout here.

MR. GERRAND: I see.

933 Q MR. BORDEN: Because what we've got here is

all kinds of audio tapes of you dictating

reasons why charges are being laid.

A Yeah.

934 Q Involving these occurrence reports. I'm just

wondering were you involved in any decision not

to disclose those audio tapes to defence

counsel, Daryl Labach and myself?

A Well, I think what mystifies me with those and,

of course, I don't know how you came in

possession of those.

935 Q I think Mr. Gerrand gave those to us.

A Well, I don't know how they would leave the

police station, because dictated reports at the

police station are typed and the tapes are

erased and put back into a machine.

936 Q Well, obviously not in this case because we have

all of your tapes going back to when you first


171

became involved. I'm just wondering, again, are

you saying that usually those tapes are erased?

A That's what I'm saying.

MR. BORDEN: Someone had those tapes. You

might want to undertake, then, to determine

where, Mr. Gerrand, those tapes came from, since

there's something sinister in all of this.

MR. GERRAND: Oh, there's nothing sinister in

all of this, Mr. Borden, the tapes were provided

as part of the disclosure that the police

department made when these proceedings were

commenced.

A And maybe for some reason they were kept at that

time. I wasn't aware of that.

937 Q MR. BORDEN: All right. So there's nothing

sinister about it?

A Well they're dictated, it's dictation of that

report, as you've indicated.

938 Q All right. Going back to the video tapes, I had

asked you questions about disclosure to defence

counsel. One of the elements here was the

Thompson notes. You put a lot of reliance on

the Thompson notes, did you?

A No, I did not.

939 Q Did you put any reliance on the Thompson notes?

A Very little.


172

940 Q So before charges were laid did you even make

reference to the Thompson notes in your

discussions with Matt Miazga and Sonja Hansen?

A Matt Miazga and Sonja Hansen were aware of the

Thompson notes and had copies of them.

941 Q Now we have a total of 95 pages of Thompson

notes. Do you know how many pages were

available to the prosecutors around the time of

the preliminary hearing of the Klassens and

Kvellos?

A I have no idea. I know that 95 pages weren't

made available to me.

942 Q They weren't made available to you?

A Some went directly to the prosecutor.

943 Q Oh, I see. How many pages were made available

to you, approximately?

A I have no idea.

944 Q Were those made available to you before charges

were laid or after they were laid?

A Before they were laid.

945 Q All right. So there were, then, Thompson notes

but not all pages were made available to you?

A That's right.

946 Q You later learned that prosecutors had more

pages than you were ever provided?

A I was left to understand that Marilyn Thompson


173

was bringing things directly to the prosecutors,

yes.

947 Q Did you ever sit down with Matt Miazga and Sonja

Hansen and talk about what you're going to turn

over to the defence counsel, Robert Borden,

Daryl Labach?

A No.

948 Q Did you ever sit down with them and decide

together that certain things wouldn't be given

to them?

A No.

949 Q Did you ever say to the prosecutors, Matt Miazga

and Sonja Hansen, that as it relates to Exhibit

P-1 you shouldn't give everything to those

defence counsel, Robert Borden, Daryl Labach?

A In relation to that?

950 Q Yes.

A Well, I mean, we have a disclosure report that

doesn't list things like annual leave, you know,

an officer's own annual leave, those sorts of

things. Other than that, the computer auto-

matically puts out a disclosure report for

counsel and that's forwarded to the prosecutors

and they, I assume, distribute it. All

disclosure is done through the prosecutors,

other than maybe a request for officer's notes.


174

951 Q That was the protocol back in 1990 and '91?

A That's right.

952 Q And that's the protocol today, isn't it?

A That's right.

953 Q So I take it, then, your answer is that you did

not enter into any discussion with or agreements

with the prosecutors to keep from defence

counsel any documents?

A No.

954 Q And all that Matt would have for the prelim, in

your judgment, would be Exhibit P-1, the video

tapes of the children, the medical reports of

Dr. Yelland?

A Right.

955 Q And then also the Alvin Buckwold medical

reports?

A I'm not sure he had them for the prelim. I

don't know what all Matt had for the prelim.

956 Q And your presumption is that Matt would have

simply handed over holus bolus those documents;

correct?

A They would decide what a disclosure package

would be, sure.

957 Q Okay. Now the element of disclosure may be a

legal concept and it may just be a matter of

protocol again at the police service. So let's


175

deal with it only from the point of view of

what's required of the police service. When did

this whole matter of disclosure become quite

important so that the police would give a

disclosure package to the prosecutors to give to

defence counsel, when did that start?

A Stinchcombe, what year was it? I don't know.

958 Q Let's say 1991, how's that?

A Okay.

959 Q So around the time of Stinchcombe, that was your

understanding, that was when prosecutors were

compelled, in your judgment, in your opinion, to

give all disclosure to defence counsel?

A That's the Stinchcombe judgment, yes.

960 Q And there wasn't any exception to that in

Saskatoon, Saskatchewan?

A No.

961 Q Would it be fair to say that you have testified

regarding this case in some criminal libel

trials?

A That's right.

962 Q And in those trials you would have given

evidence under oath; is that correct?

A That's right.

963 Q And have you had a chance to go through some of

your testimony in those particular trials?


176

A That hasn't been made available to me.

964 Q And that was not available to you?

A I don't think --

MR. GERRAND: The transcripts of the criminal

libel trials have been disclosed in the

production of the Department of Justice.

Superintendent Dueck has not specifically looked

at that transcript in anticipation of this

examination for discovery and, if you propose to

question him on it, certainly I'd suggest that

he should have an opportunity to look at that

transcript with respect to those areas that you

wish to draw to his attention.

MR. BORDEN: Yes, all right. I agree with

you. Do you have a copy of it here with you or

we could certainly make one available to you?

MR. GERRAND: I may have a portion or pieces of

it. Have you got specific pages that you --

MR. BORDEN: Yes, we do.

MR. GERRAND: What pages do you want to refer

to? Is it John Lucas's prelim of February 8th,

'94?

MR. BORDEN: This would be Richard Allan

Klassen.

MR. GERRAND: February 1, 2 and 8. What pages?

MR. BORDEN: Pages 72 forward.


177

MR. GERRAND: Page 72 to what page?

MR. BORDEN: Just a minute. This would be the

whole of his testimony, so, you know, if he's

going to be asked questions about this I would

want to ensure that he reads all of his

testimony so he gets the proper context.

MR. GERRAND: I'm not sure that I brought the

Department of Justice's disclosure with me in

anticipation of this discovery. I've got pages

72 to 75 before me, but that's all I have.

MR. BORDEN: Okay, I think it would be fair

for us to make a copy for Sergeant Dueck.

MR. GERRAND: Superintendent Dueck.

MR. BORDEN: For Superintendent Dueck to

review. It would be unfair to ask him to answer

questions regarding these without having

reviewed them.

MR. GERRAND: How many pages are there?

MR. BORDEN: I think there's in excess of 25

pages.

MR. GERRAND: How do you want to handle this,

do you want to allow us to look them over for a

few minutes now?

MR. BORDEN: Sure.

MR. KLASSEN: It starts from page 36 here.

MR. GERRAND: Okay. We'll just go into


178

another room and read this. You say 36, to what

page do you think you're going to question --

MR. BORDEN: See, the problem is, I'm not

going to tell you which question, which part of

that particular testimony I am really going to

centre on at this moment, all I'm saying is I

would feel much more comfortable if Inspector

Dueck, Superintendent Dueck, was to read that

over the evening. There maybe things, for

instance, that refresh his memory, number two,

that maybe he knows now weren't accurate. I

just want him to have time.

MR. GERRAND: Okay, fair enough.

MR. BORDEN: Which brings me to the next

matter, and that's Exhibit P-1. I would much

rather have him refer to Exhibit P-1 and go

through that document tonight because I'm going

to ask him questions, which I think I'm entitled

to do, as to his reasonable and probable

grounds, the evidence that he had in relation to

each one of the plaintiffs. And the only way

he's going to be able to do that properly is to

have reviewed his notes. What I'm saying is, I

mean, you can object to that now or tomorrow

morning --

MR. GERRAND: I'm not going to object to it, I


179

think you're entitled to ask Superintendent

Dueck the basis of his belief of reasonable and

probable grounds with respect to the plaintiffs.

MR. BORDEN: I appreciate that. So I am in a

position to call it a day now and come back at

9:00 tomorrow morning. I would like to, before

we do that, if you could help us with some

numbers here. We don't have to do this on the

record. I want to make sure we have clearly

Exhibit P-1 --

COURT REPORTER: Are you off the record.

MR. BORDEN: We'll stay on the record. I want

to make sure that tomorrow morning we have

Exhibit P-1 in front of us. I want a chance to

go through it myself. I'm hoping that we have a

copy of it in our file. And on the record, Mr.

Klassen do you have a copy of that with you here

today?

MR. KLASSEN: Yes. It seems to match. When

you were flipping it seems to match those, what

I put together. So I think we're safe to say

that we have that.

MR. BORDEN: Then we have Exhibit P-1 here

that I'm going to return to you, Superintendent

Dueck, and we'll make sure we've got the right

documents here. There's also transcripts.


180

We'll make a copy of your actual transcript

right now and in relation to any other

documents, I think that would suffice.

MR. GERRAND: I'm not with you. You're going

to leave this with the witness so he can review

it, so you can question him on it. You're going

to give us a copy of the transcript from the

Klassen prelim on criminal libel because you say

you have some questions on that document of the

witness.

MR. KLASSEN: I won't be giving the whole

transcript, but of his testimony, where he gives

testimony.

(Examination recessed at 3:20 p.m.)

FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2002 (Reconvened at 9:00 a.m.)

(Sherry Kvello and Diane Kvello present)

965 Q MR. BORDEN: Good morning, Superintendent

Dueck.

A Good morning.

966 Q This is the resumption of your examination for

discovery, you continue to be under oath and

your answers are binding upon you in these

proceedings.

I can say that I have acquired a

list of some sort, of people that may have been

named by the children as having sexually


181

assaulted Michael Ross, Michelle Ross and Kathy

Ross. I just want to go through this list with

you and see if you will agree that these are

some of the parties. Vivienne Beauchamp, do you

recognize that name?

A Yes, I do.

967 Q And that may be the Aunt Vivienne we were

talking about yesterday?

A I believe it is.

968 Q And it's your understanding that that person was

not charged; is that correct?

A That's right.

969 Q Theresa Bohm, B-O-H-M, that as well is an aunt

of the Ross children; is that correct?

A As I understand it.

970 Q And is it also your understanding that the

children alleged that Theresa Bohm had assaulted

them?

A Right.

971 Q Ken Bohm, the Ross children's uncle, would it be

fair to say that the children alleged that Ken

Bohm had also assaulted them?

A That's right.

972 Q There's a Grandpa Vogel, now do you know his

first name?

A No, I don't.


182

973 Q And that would have been the Ross children's

grandfather?

A That's what they called him.

974 Q And Grandma Vogel, do you remember her first

name?

A No, I don't.

975 Q And that would be the Ross children's

grandmother; is that correct?

A That's right.

976 Q And would it be fair to say that the children

allege that Grandpa and Grandma Vogel assaulted

them in a sexual way at one point of time in

their lives?

A That's right.

977 Q Or at many times in their lives?

A I don't recall.

978 Q We also have Jackie Klassen, and that would be

Dale and Anita's daughter, was it alleged, as

well, that Jackie was involved in sexual

relations with these Ross children?

A That's right.

979 Q And, as well, Trevor Klassen, who happens to be

Dale and Anita's son?

A That's right.

980 Q Would it be fair to say that Trevor Klassen was

also alleged to have had sexual dealings,


183

relations, with the Ross children?

A As I recall, yes.

981 Q Crystal Klassen, Rick and Kari's daughter, did

you hear from the Ross children that she, too,

had had sexual relations with the Ross children?

A I don't recall Crystal as their daughter, but I

remember the name.

982 Q Do you remember that, as well, Crystal Klassen,

it was alleged by the Ross children, had been

sexual with them?

A That's right.

983 Q And there's a Robert Klassen, John and Myrna's

son, do you remember him at all?

A I don't recall him ever being named, no.

984 Q You don't remember Robert Klassen being named?

A No.

985 Q There was a Jennifer Klassen, John and Myrna's

daughter.

A I don't remember her being named, either.

986 Q What about a Ralph Ruder (phonetic) this was a

friend of the natural parents?

A I don't remember that name.

987 Q There was Crystal Morin?

A Yes.

988 Q Heinrichs?

A Yes.


184

989 Q She was the foster child of Pamela Klassen?

A That's right.

990 Q Was it alleged that she, too, had sexually

abused the Ross children?

A Well they had sexual relations, yes.

991 Q Sexual relations, right. And that there was a

Henry Klassen, brother to Peter Klassen, do you

recall whether or not it was alleged that he,

too, had sexually molested or abused the Ross

children?

A I don't recall that.

992 Q Do you remember Ken, he was a painter?

A M'hm.

993 Q Do you remember whether or not it was alleged

that Ken the painter had, too, sexually molested

or abused the Ross children?

A I don't recall that.

994 Q Now, there was a Kim and Rob Rose, do you

remember them?

A That's right.

995 Q What do you know about them, particularly?

A They were named by the Ross children as being

involved.

996 Q Didn't the Roses offer up their baby is some

kind of ritual ceremony?

A That's what the children alleged.


185

997 Q Now since that was alleged did you do any

follow-up and determine whether or not there was

such a person as Kim Rose?

A Yes.

998 Q And did you determine that, in fact, there was?

A No.

999 Q You determined that there was not; is that

correct?

A Well, I couldn't find one.

1000 Q Did you find out whether there was, in fact, a

person by the name of Rob Rose?

A No.

1001 Q So what you did, then, is upon the allegation

that the Roses had offered up their baby in a

ritual ceremony, you did check to determine

whether or not these Roses actually existed?

A Yes.

1002 Q And it is your evidence here today that, in

fact, the Roses did not exist, at least, you

couldn't find them?

A I couldn't find them.

1003 Q There was also a grandpa in Moose Jaw, do you

remember the grandpa in Moose Jaw and what his

name was?

A There was an allegation. I don't remember his

name.


186

1004 Q But there was an allegation, as well, is that

correct?

A Yes.

MR. BORDEN: And, gentlemen, Sherry Kvello is

sitting in today, if you're wondering.

1005 Q I want to take you back now to the list of the

accused and we're going to begin at the top of

the list as we see it on the Statement of Claim,

Dennis Kvello. Did you, in fact, charge Dennis

Kvello?

A Yes.

1006 Q Did you sign the information naming Dennis

Kvello as one of the accused?

A Yes.

1007 Q Did you maintain at the time of signing the

information that you had reasonable and probable

grounds to believe that Dennis Kvello had

committed the offences named in the information?

A Yes.

1008 Q Prior to your signing that information had you

sought a search warrant with respect to that

particular accused, Dennis Kvello?

A No.

1009 Q And prior to your signing the information did

you, in fact, review the Thompson notes?

A Signing the information?


187

1010 Q Yes.

A I had seen some of them, yes.

1011 Q And prior to your signing the information did

you seek a copy of the balance of the Thompson

notes?

A No.

1012 Q Do you have with you today the Thompson notes

that you saw prior to signing the information?

A The Thompson notes I had were turned in to Mr.

Miazga, and if they're part of the disclosure

package they may be. I've never identified them

or initialled them as mine.

1013 Q Just so that we can determine continuity here in

terms of who had the notes and where they were

placed, when did you first learn of the Thompson

notes?

A During the interviewing process.

1014 Q Now we know that the interviewing process began

in 1989.

A No, I'm talking about the formal, video-taped

interviewing of the children.

1015 Q So in October and November of 1990 you would

have determined that there were notes made by

the Thompson parents?

A That's right.

1016 Q And at that particular time that you determined


188

there were notes, did you ask for a copy of

them?

A I was given a copy of them.

1017 Q Now, who gave you the copy?

A Either Marilyn or Lyle Thompson.

1018 Q Did you review with Marilyn or Lyle Thompson

those specific notes?

A No, I normally read them after the interviews

were done and they had left.

1019 Q Now, when you had made a decision to, in fact,

charge Dennis Kvello, did you rely upon the

Thompson notes in forming your belief of

reasonable and probable grounds?

A No.

1020 Q Do you know whether or not Dennis Kvello's name

appeared in the Thompson notes?

A I don't recall.

1021 Q Were there any other notes given to you by any

other person that you relied upon in forming

your reasonable and probable grounds to charge

Dennis Kvello?

A No.

1022 Q Did you interview Michael Ross?

A Yes.

1023 Q And was it part of the information that you

received in the interview or interviews of


189

Michael Ross that formed the basis for your

belief that Dennis Kvello should be charged?

A Yes.

1024 Q And you have already testified that all of those

interviews were, in fact, video taped?

A That's right.

1025 Q And is it fair to say that it's only the video

taped information that you received from which

you drew facts that gave you the reasonable and

probable grounds?

A That's right.

1026 Q In forming your reasonable and probable grounds

did you rely on the testimony of Michelle Ross

as being corroborative of Michael Ross's

allegation that he was sexually assaulted by

Dennis Kvello?

A Yes.

1027 Q And would the same thing apply to Kathy Ross,

that that was also corroborative of the

allegations made by Michael?

A That's right.

1028 Q Did you rely on any other child's interview as

being corroborative of the allegation of Michael

Ross that he was assaulted?

A I don't believe so, no.

1029 Q So as it relates to the interviews that you had


190

with any other children, that did not help you

in forming your reasonable and probable grounds?

A Not for Dennis, no.

1030 Q And did you review medical reports in forming

those reasonable and probable grounds?

A Yes.

1031 Q And whose medical reports were those?

A Dr. Yelland's.

1032 Q Yes. And any other medical reports?

A No.

1033 Q Now is there any other information that you

received that helped you determine whether or

not charges should be laid?

A Against Dennis, we're talking now?

1034 Q Yes.

A No.

1035 Q As I have it, then, it would be the taped

testimony of Michael Ross, Michelle Ross and

Kathy Ross?

A That's right.

1036 Q And it would be the medical reports of Dr.

Yelland?

A That's right.

1037 Q And there would be nothing else that you relied

upon?

A No.


191

1038 Q And I'm going to have to take you through each

one of the other plaintiffs to review it on the

same basis. Do you have your document number

142 here?

MR. GERRAND: Yes.

MR. BORDEN: And that's 142 from the old list.

MR. GERRAND: That's not going to help me.

What was it?

MR. BORDEN: It's an information, document

number 142.

MR. GERRAND: I'm not sure if I can quickly

find it. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record)

MR. BORDEN: Yes, Mr. Gerrand, thank you. You

have given over to me document number 316, which

appears to be an information of date July 6th,

1991. I have, as well, a copy of an information

which comes from your documents originally, 142,

that seems to be in a different type, also

containing the name of the informant.

MR. GERRAND: Well, I don't know what number

that is.

MR. BORDEN: For the time being I'm going to

rely on your document, if you don't mind, could

you take that out of the particular binder?

1039 Q I show you, Superintendent Dueck, information


192

number 1774644 taken from your documents,

document number 316. You may not have seen this

document, this document is amended from time to

time. Nevertheless, there is a signature and

I'm going to ask you whether or not you signed

where it reads "Signature of the informant"?

A That's my signature, yes.

1040 Q And you were, then, the informant with respect

to this information; is that correct?

A That's right.

1041 Q Now, the reason why I say you may not have seen

this particular document is that this is the

document filed in court and it's amended from

time to time. For instance, you will notice

that there are certain charges that were stayed.

You wouldn't have had anything to do with that

originally, would you?

A That's right.

1042 Q I think that a document which may be in more

pristine form would be from your original

documents, if we could just leave that out for

the time being. Original document number 142 is

an information without a number, but it does

have on it a signature. Is that your signature

where it's marked "Signature of the informant"?

A Yes, it is.


193

MR. GERRAND: Just to be accurate. It

certainly appears as if the document that you

have produced as 142 is the original, unamended

and unmarked copy of our document 316.

MR. BORDEN: Yes, thank you. I'm going to

have marked both documents now, and the first

document will be our next exhibit, this is the

information originally marked as your document

number 142.

EXHIBIT P-2: UNAMENDED, ORIGINAL VERSION OF INFORMATION

NUMBER 17746444 (DEFENDANT'S DOCUMENT 142)

MR. BORDEN: The next document, that being the

information marked as your document number 316

as our next exhibit.

EXHIBIT P-3: AMENDED VERSION OF INFORMATION NUMBER

17746444 (DEFENDANT'S DOCUMENT 316)

1043 Q Now, I had asked you questions regarding the

information applying to Dennis Kvello and I

asked you where you gleaned your information

from before you swore out this information,

being Exhibit P-2, and that is the information

relating to Dennis Kvello that we were

discussing, is it?

A That's right.

1044 Q So now, later on this Exhibit P-2 would have

been filed in the Provincial Court and later in


194

the Court of Queen's Bench; is that your

understanding of the process?

A That's what my understanding is.

1045 Q And certain amendments would be made by the

court officials from time to time?

A That's right.

1046 Q And there would be endorsements made, as well,

with respect to the informations; is that

correct?

A That's right.

1047 Q So that Exhibit P-3 would be the court informa-

tion with the amendments and endorsements?

A That's right.

1048 Q Now I'd like to turn to Diane Kvello. And now I

will refer specifically to Exhibit P-2, and you

swore out an information relating to Diane

Kvello and this is it?

A That's right.

1049 Q And prior to your swearing that information did

you obtain a search warrant with respect to

Diane Kvello?

A No.

1050 Q And in forming the basis of these charges

against Diane Kvello, did you take into account

in any way the Thompson notes?

A No.


195

1051 Q In relation to that particular P-2 information

did you take into account the interviews of

Michael Ross, Michelle Ross and Kathy Ross?

A Yes.

1052 Q And as it relates to this particular plaintiff,

Diane Kvello, did you take into account medical

reports?

A Yes.

1053 Q And were those medical reports those only of Dr.

Yelland?

A Yes.

1054 Q Were there any other documents from which you

took information that helped form the reasonable

and probable grounds against Diane Kvello?

A No.

1055 Q When you were formulating your belief prior to

signing the informations did you take into

account that with respect to the allegations

that Diane Kvello sexually assaulted Michael

Ross, that there was corroboration in the

interviews of Kathy Ross and Michelle Ross?

A Yes.

1056 Q And were there any other children that gave you

corroborative belief?

A Well, obviously, by reading this document now I

see that Trevor Heinrichs and one of the Mayes


196

children also testified. I didn't recall that

before because of the situation regarding them

testifying, their parents pulled them back.

1057 Q Okay, so we better understand that better.

You've now read the document, Exhibit P-2?

A Right.

1058 Q And you've seen P-3, of course?

A Right.

1059 Q You're saying that there's a child named Trevor

Heinrichs involved here?

A Right.

1060 Q And how does he impact on this particular

information?

A Well, as you indicated earlier, I hadn't seen

this document, so if I could review it I could

recall from that.

1061 Q Yes, go ahead, that's fine.

A Okay, it wasn't Trevor Heinrichs that disclosed

on Dennis and Diane, it was Stephan Hardy or

Stephan Mayes, and Shannivia Hardy or Mayes.

And I know that both those charges were

withdrawn before it went to court.

1062 Q So in terms of forming your reasonable and

probable grounds you took into account the

disclosures made by Stephan Mayes and Shannia

[sic] Mayes; is that correct?


197

A However you pronounce it.

1063 Q Shannivia Mayes?

A That's right.

1064 Q And so the record is clear there were no other

children that you relied upon in forming your

reasonable and probable grounds against Dennis

Kvello?

A No.

1065 Q Now as it relates to Diane Kvello did you take

into account, then, this information given by

the Mayes children --

A Yes.

1066 Q -- in forming your reasonable and probable

grounds?

A Yes.

1067 Q And as it relates to Dennis Kvello and the

allegations that he sexually assaulted Michelle

Ross, I take it that you took into account the

disclosure of Kathy and Michael?

A Yes.

1068 Q And as it relates to Dennis Kvello and

allegations that he sexually assaulted Kathy

Ross, you took into account the disclosures as

given by Michelle and Michael?

A Yes, and the Mayes children.

1069 Q I'd like you to look at Exhibit P-2. You have


198

referred to the Mayes children, what particular

paragraph are you referring to?

A Five, six and then seven on the last page.

1070 Q May I see that? Specifically, I'm looking at

the information, I notice that paragraph 5

relates to a charge that Dennis Kvello did

commit a sexual assault upon Stephan Wyatt

Hardy, that's one of the Mayes children?

A That's right.

1071 Q And paragraph 6 relates to an allegation that

Dennis Kvello committed an assault upon

Shannivia Elizabeth Hardy, and that's the other

Mayes child that you referred to?

A That's right. Also a Sarde.

1072 Q There was also a charge in paragraph 7 that

Dennis Kvello did commit an assault upon Sarde

Lynn Hardy, and that would be the third Mayes

child?

A Yes.

1073 Q So in relation to the allegation against any one

individual child, you took into account the

corroborative evidence or disclosure of each and

every other child?

A Well it would corroborate that, certainly, yes.

1074 Q And that helped to form your reasonable and

probable grounds; is that correct?


199

A That's right.

1075 Q And as it relates now to Diane Kvello, the same

thing would be true that each and everyone of

the children who disclosed would provide you

with some corroboration or some factual basis

for your reasonable and probable grounds against

Diane Kvello?

A That's right.

1076 Q The next person is Sheldon Kvello. I would like

you now to refer to Exhibit P-3 and you will

find on P-3 copies of charges against Sheldon

Kvello, that should be later on in the group of

documents. Remember that he was a young

offender.

A That's right, yes.

1077 Q I'll show you a copy of an information, do you

recognize that document? I just showed you one

page, it's just that we stapled many documents

together, I'm just referring to the one page.

Do you recognize that information?

A Well, I signed it.

1078 Q So that is the information against Sheldon

Kvello?

A That's right.

1079 Q That is your signature?

A That's right.

continued > > >